243: People Who Build Things with Jay Miller

This week’s guest is Jay Miller, a podcaster, developer, and, as of recently, a developer advocate for Elastic. We chat about what a developer advocate does, adventures in productivity, and the joy of building things that help people who build things build things.

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[00:00:00] Brett_1: [00:00:00] My guest this week is Jay Miller, a podcaster, developer, and as of recently, a developer advocate for a Elastic. How’s it going, Jay?

[00:00:08] Jay_1: [00:00:08] I’m excited to be here. This is, this is several years of dreams come true. Finally.

[00:00:13]Brett_1: [00:00:13] It’s really nice to hear that. I have been on your show before, and I would say that if you feel like reverting to interviewer mode and ask me questions, it’s totally cool because that’s what makes my job way easier.

[00:00:28]Jay_1: [00:00:28] I would just say, just stop me and be like, Hey, no, this is my show. Where are you doing?

[00:00:32] Brett_1: [00:00:32] You are now a developer advocate for elastic first. Tell me what is Elastic? What do they do?

[00:00:39]Jay_1: [00:00:39] So elastic is the search company. I’m not going to say a search company. We are the search company. That’s right. Google shots fired. Let’s do this. But the way that I explain it to people, when I’m doing the advocacy thing, is that. Elastic is the search that you want to work. So you don’t have [00:01:00] to go to Google.

[00:01:01] And I mean that in, when you go to Yelp, you want to find tacos in your area. That’s powered by elastic search. When you want to go to, you know, When you’re on Uber and you want to like, you know, hail a ride and it’s checking your area, checking for cars in your area. It’s making sure it has a list of, you know, who you’ve worked with in the past and who you don’t want to have, you know, driving you that’s elastic search working in the background.

[00:01:25] We are search company through and through. And what we’ve kind of been able to do learn is that search works. Beyond a UI bar and a little magnifying glass. In fact, we can search logs. Um, I think I showed you a picture of this, but we can search RSS feeds and look at trends in history. Of people’s posting frequency and things like that.

[00:01:51] And I know of course, when you start talking about data and the consumption of data, it can get creepy. But the general idea is [00:02:00] we’re only able to collect the things that people give us and looking at it from the database perspective, we are simply a database that focuses on retrieving the information that you’re looking for as you’re looking for it, or really, really fast.

[00:02:15] Brett_1: [00:02:15] The creepy thing happens when it’s gathering data, you don’t realize you’re putting out there. And when you find out that they’re selling that data, that’s, that’s when it gets creepy using actual public data. That’s what data is for. That’s what it’s there for. I, uh,

[00:02:35] Jay_1: [00:02:35] actually started working on the San Diego police call records for the last five years to see if there’s any trends and over-policing in different districts based on their nine one, one calls.

[00:02:48] Brett_1: [00:02:48] Really? I would, I would be curious to see your findings.

[00:02:53] Jay_1: [00:02:53] uh, right now I’m just trying to get the things to work. So we’re getting there.

[00:02:57] Brett_1: [00:02:57] I did. I noticed with your, [00:03:00] uh, your, your analysis of my RSS feed. Um, it made a pretty clear graph of my bipolar disorder. You can see where I was manic and then these lulls where I was depressed, it was, uh, perhaps the, uh, the best mood meter I’ve seen yet.

[00:03:18]Jay_1: [00:03:18] Well, a lot of that comes from the idea. I’m sure, you know, Wolfrem from Wolf from alpha fame, but one of the things that he’s done is collect so much data on himself that he’s able to just make these correlations to things that no one else would think of. And hearing about that. I’ve wanted to do something similar.

[00:03:42] And you mentioned like working with RSS feeds and seeing if it has a way to track, like, you know, mental health or having peaks and valleys. If you, if you have to track, you know, your mood to me, being able to log that data in it in a [00:04:00] way that you can make those connections is something that. I don’t think is necessary for the business end of companies.

[00:04:08] I think that’s a personal journey because I think everyone’s data is different. I mean, that’s kind of where we start to fall off in productivity is everyone tries to follow the one way when there really isn’t the one way, it’s your way, whatever you decide to do, that’s what’s going to work for you. And I mean, not to be too much of a shell, but one of the things I like about elastic as a company is that all of our products are open source.

[00:04:32] So we, we get paid post data when it’s asked of us. But in terms of all of our products, anybody can download them. Anybody can run them on their machine, you can set up your own system and you can configure it. And we see none of that data ever. And to me, that is the package power of an amazing product, not an amazing company.

[00:05:00] [00:04:59] Brett_1: [00:04:59] Um, I, it’s probably not your fault, but I’m surprised I’ve never heard of elastic before.

[00:05:05]Jay_1: [00:05:05] I think that that’s a victim of doing our job because you know, the internet outrage machine doesn’t yell at us too much. And in fact, the only advertisements that I’ve seen that are like, talking about competitors are often, like, do you have all of these problems that other databases have. Well, I’ll try our database cause you’re not going to have them with us.

[00:05:28] So I can, I can tend to, uh, definitely understand that the common world doesn’t really know of us, but I mean, I didn’t know that I was working for a company that, you know, we’re trying to reach like a billion dollar company status and like we’re publicly traded and all of these things. And I didn’t know that until I got the offer letter and it was like, Oh, Oh wow, we’re bigger than I thought we were.

[00:05:54]Brett_1: [00:05:54] So, so you you’re obviously you’re advocating for them right now, but what does a [00:06:00] developer advocate do?

[00:06:01]Jay_1: [00:06:01] So I like to think of a developer advocate as like a influencer for a certain segment of the tech community. And for me, it just happens to be in the world of dealing with search. So. Advocates are often the people that you see speaking at conferences, if they’re not engineers. In fact, I think one of the funny trends is as more and more conferences have gone to online only events.

[00:06:31] A lot of the advocates that I know have been getting into live streaming more. And it’s, they’re realizing, Oh, wait, you mean, I don’t have to prepare a talk. I don’t have to, you know, figure all this stuff out. I don’t have to travel, you know, three weeks out of the, out of the month. I can just on a computer, turn on a camera and talk and that’s like doing my job.

[00:06:53] Okay, sign me up. That’s great. But one of the things that I like to say, and that I’m glad happened was we’re [00:07:00] longer evangelists, you know, it’s great when we can preach the amazingness of our product, the speed, the relevance, all those things. But. To me, this switch from developer evangelism, which is what it used to be called for a long time or developer relations to developer advocacy.

[00:07:22] Is that when we speak on behalf of both sides too, The other side. So for folks in the community, we’re out there listening to their concerns, we’re out there trying to help them build the things that they want to build. And when there are headaches where the people that are, you know, logging the issues, updating the documentation, speaking to people on the engineering team saying, Hey, When, you know, when Brett uses our system, he’s getting this error.

[00:07:56] This error could probably be written better. I’ve already submitted a [00:08:00] pull request to update the documentation for it. Can you just make sure that this is done? And then when it is reaching back out to Brett and saying, Hey, thank you so much for catching this. I’ve made sure that it won’t happen for anyone else.

[00:08:13] Brett_1: [00:08:13] I need a developer advocate for my software.

[00:08:17] Jay_1: [00:08:17] Yeah, I’ve been trying for years, but I’m just a terrible, terrible in maintaining some of the things I’ve helped make.

[00:08:25] Brett_1: [00:08:25] I, yeah, it would be great to have someone in between me and the get hub issues. That could kind of, um, I it’s a D it’s a diplomatic position. Uh, you, you I’m sure that like when developed, when things go wrong for developers, they’re not always kind about it. Uh, I’m sure you hear the angry side of things and have to translate that into the actual, like a report and then go back and try to be nice to someone who’s perhaps being a bit [00:09:00] confrontational.

[00:09:00]Jay_1: [00:09:00] I think the best. Example of that is whenever there’s a, like a tweet of someone that’s just struggling to get something working and they shout and they shout and they shall, why is this so complicated? Why does this not work? Why is this wrong? And sometimes, yeah, we have to accept that there should be egg on our face, you know, Hey, we messed this up so, you know, when you want to say all of those things, but you can’t because you have to think of like, what is the best diplomatic response to that? And it might be, Hey, we’re sorry, you’re having a difficult time with that.

[00:09:36] Have you looked at this log that, you know, Clearly shows the exact same issue that you’re having that I found in a quick Google search, because my Google Fu or I guess my duck duck Fu is, you know, kind of attuned to these problems. Here you

[00:09:54] Brett_1: [00:09:54] Yeah, I see that I can do that. I have this strong temptation to have you [00:10:00] used, let me Google that for you.

[00:10:02] Jay_1: [00:10:02] yes.

[00:10:03] Brett_1: [00:10:03] did you know, there’s a version for duck, duck? Go.

[00:10:05] Jay_1: [00:10:05] Yes.

[00:10:06]Brett_1: [00:10:06] I’m always, I, I so rarely get a chance to use that when I know that the other person will find it funny. Cause it is so it’s so sarcastic. For anyone who hasn’t used, that it’s a site you can go to.

[00:10:22] And when someone really should have just Googled for an answer that they would have found for like first try, you can type in the query for them and it’ll give you a link and when they follow it, yeah, it’ll open Google show, an animation of typing it in and then do the search for them. It’s it’s delightful.

[00:10:42] Sarcasm.

[00:10:43]Jay_1: [00:10:43] And I mean it’s, and it’s not to say that the person hasn’t gone and done those things it’s again, and you know, I’m learning this stack as I’m helping advocate for it. So there are plenty of times where someone says, Oh, why is this not working? And I go. [00:11:00] I don’t know why is this not working? And then I go, you know, message someone that’s on the development team and they go, Oh yeah, totally.

[00:11:06] This is what’s wrong with it. Here’s the exact link. And I can go, Hey, can we turn this into a blog post so that that’s easier to find. So it’s, again, it’s, it’s kind of that idea of you want to be the face of like reason and calmness for the company, but then also when something does come up, you want to be able to.

[00:11:26]Shield the, as you mentioned, shield that engineering team from just a barrage of why are you doing this wrong? Don’t you know how to code my goodness. It’s like, you’ve never written a line of code in your life before. And again, these are people that are just frustrated because they have their own deadlines to worry about.

[00:11:43]Brett_1: [00:11:43] Yeah. I, I, I truly appreciate that. I, I work hard to, uh, re respond to angry messages with kindness, and I generally get a very good result from doing that. But when I can afford to hire you [00:12:00] away from elastic, it would be so nice to not have that responsibility on my plate.

[00:12:05]Jay_1: [00:12:05] I would say the thing that I’ve done, this is like my, my mini productivity hack. I actually just say what I want to say and then let text expander translate it for

[00:12:15] Brett_1: [00:12:15] I do that. Yup. I think I, I think I have a blog post about a text expander snippet that converts my, my very sarcastic responses into. In two, thank you for reporting this issue. I’m sorry. You’re having this problem. Um, yeah. Anyway, so in your, uh, your off time, you, you have something called the pit show

[00:12:39]Jay_1: [00:12:39] Yeah.

[00:12:40] Brett_1: [00:12:40] that’s been going on for a few years.

[00:12:42] Now, tell us about that.

[00:12:44]Jay_1: [00:12:44] So the pitch show was this idea of. I was really unproductive. Well, and I wouldn’t even say I was unproductive. I didn’t know what productivity was. And I really wanted to learn [00:13:00] from people that were, that I considered to be productive. So I did what any normal person would do. I started a podcast and said, Hey, who wants to be on my show?

[00:13:11] And. Yeah, six years later, we’ve got a community. We, you know, we’re still putting shows it was out. And, um, I’ve had you on the show, a couple of, because you know, you, you change your style up every once in a while, and it’s good to see what’s been working and what hasn’t been working. And ultimately the show has kind of evolved over time from a lot of feedback, a lot of feedback from the audience saying like, Hey.

[00:13:39] We love the interviews, but we want to know what you’re doing. So then I started putting my own like 2 cents in the ring, and then there were people that were like, yeah, we like what you’re doing, but we want to hear from more people. So eventually, you know, the current iteration of this, this is now the pit show, which is.

[00:13:58] Literally me [00:14:00] talking about something relevant to whatever happened that week and then playing a snippet of an interview that I, I had with someone and then wrapping it up with how do these two things come together neatly, and then I just ship it. And, you know, it’s, that’s kind of been my working. Stands for awhile.

[00:14:21] Like just do the thing, ship it out. People listen to a great, if people don’t listen to it, you still wanted to make it so no harm there.

[00:14:30] Brett_1: [00:14:30] That’s it. It’s pretty cool. You found a balance between you and your interviews. Um, how so do you, would you say that doing this format where half of it is just you talking, do you think that takes more or less planning than doing a full interview show?

[00:14:47]Jay_1: [00:14:47] I think that it eased up the interview, I guess dilemma. Cause I mean, as someone that does an interview show, you [00:15:00] know, that it is a pain in the butt to, first of all, find people to talk to then record the interviews, then edit the interview. And on top of all of that, Have it sitting there for who knows how long so that you can publish on a regular schedule.

[00:15:16] And I think what this allowed me to do was take all the interviews that I have left for this year, which I think if I released the one interview a week, I would have enough interviews to go into like late December. And basically cut those in half and turn them into little snippets that are no longer time sensitive that I can go.

[00:15:40] Hm. What happened this week? Well, this and this happened, that kind of reminds me of that conversation that I have with such and such. Let me pull that interview up and, you know, play this 10 minute clip of it. And. It just transformed it into a different way of thinking. Not necessarily like the job got easier or harder.

[00:15:59] It was more like [00:16:00] when I had to come up with things to think about. I struggled with filling time when I was only doing interviews, the interviews would often either become irrelevant or they wouldn’t kind of match what was going on in the space, especially now where, you know, every week there’s some scandal fiasco while thing happening.

[00:16:18] So. I kind of just took the best of both worlds and like jammed them together. And it it’s, it feels very much now like a talk show more than it does me hosting a podcast. It’s me getting up and giving my monologue, having a guest, asking them a few questions, thinking everybody for listening to them and then wrapping it up with my closing monologue.

[00:16:39] And then the music plays

[00:16:41] Brett_1: [00:16:41] Except you don’t have a team of writers.

[00:16:44] Jay_1: [00:16:44] exactly. I mean, if I had a team of writers that the show would be even better.

[00:16:48] Brett_1: [00:16:48] Yeah. Well, when I have enough money to hire you away from your day job, uh, hopefully we’ll be able to hire some writers as well.

[00:16:56]Jay_1: [00:16:56] I mean, you’ve got, you’ve got the discord now I’d say, just ask them [00:17:00] like, Hey, these are the shows aren’t gonna produce themselves.

[00:17:03] Brett_1: [00:17:03] Yeah. For anyone listening who is not already in the discord, uh, there is a growing community. There’ll be a link in the show notes. Come join us. You can, you can ask Jay questions. It’ll be fun. So you talked about starting the pit show because you wanted to be more productive. Did it work?

[00:17:21]Jay_1: [00:17:21] I mean, did starting the PID show make me more productive? Yes. Did the focus on wanting to be more productive? Make me more productive? Absolutely not. Um, Kind of the long story short, there was, I’m a military veteran. I served in the Marine Corps. I got out of the Marine Corps, got a regular job job. And in that job, I didn’t really fit.

[00:17:48] What they needed, but I was what they had. So it kind of worked. The issue was five years. I had been told when to wake up when to work out, when to go [00:18:00] eat, when to stop eating and then like when to go on vacation, quote, unquote deployment. So having that amount of direction, especially at a young age,

[00:18:13] didn’t really prepare me for, Hey, here are your responsibilities. No, one’s going to really tell you what to do. You just got to balance it and figure it all out yourself. So then the immediate switch to that was I do everything at like 15 screw 10, screw 11, screw, all the other ones I’m going to like it’s either all or nothing.

[00:18:34] So I was like, I need to know how to be like the productive person. I want to know what the Eisenhower matrix is. I want to know what GTD stands for. I want to read all the books. I gonna listen to all the shows like I’m subscribed to like 300 podcasts still. And like, I don’t have time to listen to all of them.

[00:18:53] And out of that became. A ton of stress, to be honest of just like, [00:19:00] I can’t do this. Like I can’t be GTD. I can’t get things done. The David Allen way, I can’t make Kanban fit. Every situation. And that just, I meant that I stressed more and more and more, and I started searching for other solutions and asking other people, what are they doing?

[00:19:20] They’re using 12 week year. Let me do that. I’m throwing out all these buzz words, just to prove that I know them, I guess. I don’t know. But at the end of the day, something funny finally clicked. And by the way, I’m a bullet journalist now. So I did find something that kind of worked for me. But the thing that I learned was.

[00:19:37]My productivity is my productivity. Like I could write a book on all the things that I do that make me productive, and I’m sure that someone else would read it and go, Oh, wow. I’ve never thought about this one particular thing. Let me just try that. And that’s when I realized the value of having all of these guests on the show, but [00:20:00] not fully adopting their entire process, looking for like the one.

[00:20:05] I call it like the nug, like the one nugget of truth that you can incorporate into your system, or that you can be thinking about. How does Brett manage this one thing, which I know it’s been a while since I’ve asked you like how, you know, task Meister and all these other things are working for you for that exact reason is like, I’m glad that they’re just working for you.

[00:20:27] It’s like I see their success. I don’t need to know how you’re doing it. The hope that I can emulate that. I know it won’t work for me.

[00:20:33]Brett_1: [00:20:33] I’m glad I didn’t have to go through the long journey to realize I couldn’t adopt to any one system. Um, that my brain just would never focus on one system long enough to feel like I could make it work for me. Uh, like GTD pretty much, uh, It made sense and immediately I let it go. And the one thing I took away from it though, was the whole, [00:21:00] like, uh, the, the brain dump and just getting things out of my head and into buckets so that I could.

[00:21:08] Uh, think clearly and know that they were in a safe place like that, that aspect of GTD stuck with me and it, I use it to this day. Everything else about it, I don’t follow. Um, but I get what you’re saying. Uh, the, the obsession with productivity is a huge impediment to productivity.

[00:21:31]Jay_1: [00:21:31] I think the best way to look at kind of the pathways to. Managing productivity. Uh, there’s a good friend of mine, Joe Buhlig. That is very, very bright. He does this podcast called bookworm with Mike Schmitz and they read a self help book every two weeks. I believe. Meanwhile, I think I’ve read like, A full book this year, maybe.

[00:22:00] [00:22:00] So for me, I just, I know, like I’m not going to be able to do that. And I’m sure there are people that are like, yeah, you just read like five, read five paragraphs a day and then you’ll catch yourself wanting to read temp. It’s like, yeah, I know the tricks. The thing is I don’t. Care. Like, I don’t like them.

[00:22:18] The tricks are stupid. I don’t want to do those things. So I’m not going to, and I mean, maybe I blame it on the ADHD, but. It’s in me. I feel like that’s just a normal thought. Someone says, Hey, you should do this. You go, I don’t want to do this. I mean, I’ve got a daughter, so I hear that all the time. And it’s, it’s like, if you don’t want to do it, then do the thing that you want to do, but find a way that you don’t get fired.

[00:22:44] You know, that, that was my goal. At the end of the day, it was like, how can I do the job to the level of completion that I don’t get fired at the end of the day? And if I can do that on a regular basis, then I can keep doing whatever the hell I want.

[00:22:59]Brett_1: [00:22:59] How do you, [00:23:00] I can’t imagine reading a self help book a week.

[00:23:02]Jay_1: [00:23:02] I don’t know.

[00:23:04]Brett_1: [00:23:04] There, there was a podcast called by the book where they did something very similar. And for every episode they read or they pick one rule from a self help book to follow it down to the letter a for, for each episode. And that’s a fun social experiment, but I can’t imagine, I can’t imagine that amount of reading.

[00:23:27]Jay_1: [00:23:27] I don’t know how you would be able to come to a complete system if you’re constantly adding to it every single week.

[00:23:36] Brett_1: [00:23:36] well, I’m not sure. I’m not sure they kept following a system of any one system after the week was over. I think it’s more of a do by Friday thing. See how it works for the week.

[00:23:49] Jay_1: [00:23:49] Uh,

[00:23:50] Brett_1: [00:23:50] And I assumed that that Joe B and Mike S are not, um, Uh, compiling every self [00:24:00] help book into concatenating them and continually building one bloated system.

[00:24:06]Jay_1: [00:24:06] definitely you have to have one of them on the show. They’re they’re amazing.

[00:24:10]Brett_1: [00:24:10] Mike Schmitz has been on before I should have him back. I’ve never had Joe on. I definitely should. Uh, I met met both of them through, um, A max stock actually. And where, where you spoke at the last step or 12 max stock. It was really

[00:24:29] Jay_1: [00:24:29] was one of the weirdest events for me because I knew everyone in the room and nobody knew me. Well, I guess you knew me. He added a couple people that knew me, but it was just like, Oh, Hey, have you met Jay? And I’m like, Oh, Hey look at all these people I’ve listened to for years. And they’re like, Oh no, who’s Jay.

[00:24:49] I’m like, yeah, that’s what I thought.

[00:24:51]Brett_1: [00:24:51] Yeah, no, I, uh, yeah, I can’t relate people, people, I don’t, I don’t follow anybody. So it always shocks me [00:25:00] when people do know who I am.

[00:25:01]Jay_1: [00:25:01] I think about like internet celebrity in that weird essence of you never know who’s your biggest fan until like you meet them. And then it’s just kinda like why, but why though?

[00:25:15] Brett_1: [00:25:15] Yeah, no, but I’ve actually like the people that I’ve met because they were, uh, like fans of my work. And then to the extent where they wanted to meet me and they’d, they’d find me and either email me or meet me in person at a conference. I I’ve never had a bad experience with that. I know that it could very easily go wrong, but everyone I’ve ever met that way has become a friend.

[00:25:41] They’ve all been cool.

[00:25:43]Jay_1: [00:25:43] I don’t want to break Twitter, but I’m pretty sure the way that I got you to guest on my first show. Like. God like five, six years ago was straight up. You saying, I need to learn how to make new [00:26:00] friends. And I just replied, well, if you want to come be on my podcast, I’ll be your best friend forever.

[00:26:04]Brett_1: [00:26:04] And I took you up on it.

[00:26:06] Jay_1: [00:26:06] You

[00:26:07] Brett_1: [00:26:07] And now we’re friends.

[00:26:09] Jay_1: [00:26:09] I completely freaked out. I was just like, Oh, well shoot. Okay. Let’s uh, let’s, let’s figure this out, I guess.

[00:26:18] Brett_1: [00:26:18] Yeah. So you also, in addition to running a show and working a day job, you make a lot of stuff you were talking about, uh, some of the data, uh, analysis stuff you’re working on. And I know you, you build tools like, uh, what, what, what kind of stuff do you do in addition to the things we’ve already talked about?

[00:26:40]Jay_1: [00:26:40] Yeah, I will say that some of the projects are now merging into work projects because I can give talks on them. And

[00:26:49] Brett_1: [00:26:49] That’s awesome. When that happens.

[00:26:51] Jay_1: [00:26:51] yeah. It’s like if I mentioned search once I’m allowed to work on it during the Workday, I love it. But the. My, my [00:27:00] business statement, by the way, Pitt is a business as well.

[00:27:04] Um, but it’s always been buildings that help people that build things, build things, but I know that’s kind of weird, but that, I mean, that’s kind of the mantra is I want to make the things that help people who are making things for other creators. And I think that’s where following your work for the longest time.

[00:27:25] Really helped to influence that because I saw. The tools that you’re creating and then realize you’re making tools for people that want to create, not necessarily people that want to just consume and a few examples of that. And don’t add any of these in the show notes. Cause they’re all terrible. And that’s not my imposter syndrome kicking in.

[00:27:46] That’s like I have failing test. So, uh, let’s not add those, but one of the things that I’ve been doing lately is working on making transcriptions better. Um, I’m sure a lot of people are doing that. Machine [00:28:00] learning is a powerful drug, but the way that I’m wanting to approach this is I’m wanting to make transcriptions better for developers.

[00:28:09] And it sounds like that’s not a challenging thing, but anyone that has to write a good variable name can tell you like, okay, if the variable is solve for Y. That can be written out many different ways. So how do you make that better? And again, that’s an ongoing journey. And then some of the other things that I’ve done is, um, render engine, which is a static site generator that is designed to.

[00:28:41]Take all of the fidgetiness out of static site generators. Uh, basically you just write in markdown and then you put it in a folder and you say, Hey, run. And then it builds it. And you don’t have to think, um, well you have to think a little bit, but not too much. And then from there, everything else that I’ve [00:29:00] built has been.

[00:29:01] How do I solve a problem that I’m having that I’m sure someone else might be having? Um, for instance, this developer, I know named Brett Terpstra made this app called bunch. And I, it was like, Hey, this would be really cool if I can trigger it via Alfred. And I know that that developer named bred term stra uses launch bar and he doesn’t use offered.

[00:29:22] So. He’s not going to make it, so I’ll just make it and then I’ll share it. And people will complain to me and not him. And I’ll ignore them because that’s what I do.

[00:29:32] Brett_1: [00:29:32] You did, you did a really good job of running all the support for that.

[00:29:35]Jay_1: [00:29:35] I mean, it’s, I think the hardest part of that is. Keeping up because you add so many things that eventually I was like, you know what? This is just going to talk to the CLI and if breast supports it, it works. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t.

[00:29:53]Brett_1: [00:29:53] So when, when you, when you’re scratching all of these itches, uh, do you ever [00:30:00] build stuff just because you found, uh, cool. That looked fun.

[00:30:04] Like it would be fun to play with.

[00:30:05]Jay_1: [00:30:05] I don’t think that I grab a hammer and started looking for nails. But I do look for nails that I can hit with whatever new hair or that I bought.

[00:30:18] Brett_1: [00:30:18] It’s not the same thing.

[00:30:20] Jay_1: [00:30:20] I don’t think so because I think one would say, Hey, here’s a new framework. Like for instance, a good example of this view, three just came out and like Python 3.9 just came out and there’s some really cool features in there that I would love to play with, but I don’t have it yet use case forum.

[00:30:40] And it’s like, I’m not going to. I’m not going to build an app that just so that I can play with those tools, but at the same time, if I do say, you know, Hey, I want to track my mood and align that with my Tetris scores. You know, because Tetris is a known [00:31:00] therapy method for people with ADHD, look it up. Um, I can do that and Hey, I get the opportunity to play with this new technology that just came out.

[00:31:10] I think that’s the difference, I think. And I think that this is the going back to that productivity problem. There have been apps that came out that said, We are here because we want you to rethink this problem. And there were people that would say, well, I don’t really have that problem, but this tool looks so cool that I’m going to spend the money to download this product and just see if it improves my life somewhat instead of going, Oh, well, I mean, I don’t have that problem, so I don’t need to spend the money.

[00:31:39] Brett_1: [00:31:39] Yeah. Um, I subscribe to an RSS feed of, uh, of web API APIs. It’s just a, a site that, that posts, they have a page for like every possible API on the web. And I watch for things that. Uh, [00:32:00] log social activity or manipulate text in some way, or do a machine language or machine learning analysis for sentiment of, of a blog post, stuff like that.

[00:32:11] And I frequently find myself, um, finding, um, finding nails because, uh, the hammer looks so cool. And then I go and. I like to think that I am always solving my own problem, but I’m pretty sure I often make up problems just to try out new tools.

[00:32:32]Jay_1: [00:32:32] I think for me, I get excited when I see something that can solve a problem that I’ve had for a long time. Um, a good example of this, like the idea of. Hey, I just bought a stream deck. Uh, why is, why do I need a stream deck? To be honest, I don’t. Nobody does, but they’re cool. And I won’t, so I bought one and [00:33:00] the thing that was great about this was that.

[00:33:03]When you’re starting a new job, you have like all these new websites you got to check and you gotta do all this stuff. And you gotta remember what the URL to everything are. Well, I don’t have to because I just made a folder and put it on my stream deck. So it’s like, Oh, Hey, I need to go look at that one thing.

[00:33:21] Where is it at? I don’t know, push one button, push two buttons. Hey, there it is.

[00:33:25] Brett_1: [00:33:25] So does that, does that end up being like your cell phone where you don’t know anybody’s phone number? You just know that you hit the button? Yeah. I can see that I got my stream deck by, by accident or as the result of a job. Um, I don’t know. I had always kind of, uh, It had always appealed to me, but it was one of those things I couldn’t justify because I didn’t have a problem for it to solve. But then when it came to me, I, uh, I did find plenty of things to do with it.

[00:33:59]Jay_1: [00:33:59] Oh, yeah, [00:34:00] it was going to be one of my picks, but I haven’t done enough with it to be honest right now it’s just a really good bookmark tool.

[00:34:07] Brett_1: [00:34:07] Like, as we speak, I have a button I can push any time and it will insert the timestamp into my show notes.

[00:34:16] Jay_1: [00:34:16] Oh, that’s nice.

[00:34:17] Brett_1: [00:34:17] since we started recording, thanks to some, uh, some keyboard, Maestro macros, uh, from the good folks at backbeat media, um, which I will link to in the show notes. Let me put a timestamp in here.

[00:34:31] Um, yeah. Um, anyhow, did you ever see exists.io?

[00:34:37] Jay_1: [00:34:37] I did.

[00:34:38] Brett_1: [00:34:38] Did you ever use it?

[00:34:40]Jay_1: [00:34:40] I think I signed up for an account and then I forgot about it.

[00:34:43]Brett_1: [00:34:43] I used it very, uh, like daily. I don’t want to say religiously cause I don’t do anything religiously, but, um, I use it daily and it goes back to something we were talking about earlier on, um, this idea of, of [00:35:00] mapping data and it would map. Not just the mood that I told it I was in, but it would also keep track of how many GitHub pushes I had, how many, uh, Twitter posts I made, how many Instagram photos I shared, and it would create these correlations and they weren’t always, um, deep, but they were often correlations.

[00:35:25] I never would have looked for. And every, every day it would kind of give you like you do this more when this happens. And it was very interesting. I kind of fell off of using it. Um, I still we’ll get the notifications from it telling me that I haven’t entered anything and I keep them because I keep meaning to get back to it.

[00:35:44] But it’s that kind of it’s that public data, it’s, it’s extra meaning from stuff that we are publicly sharing anyway.

[00:35:52]Jay_1: [00:35:52] I just wonder though, there, there is the idea of like false correlation.

[00:36:00] [00:35:59] Brett_1: [00:35:59] Oh, totally. Yeah.

[00:36:01] Jay_1: [00:36:01] And I always wonder, like, when you’re trying to make these discoveries, like, Hey, If I can predict when I’m going to hit like a depressive, you know, point and just like my mood swings. Like, yeah, that would be great. However, I think that I’m pretty good at identifying when those things are about to happen.

[00:36:26] Like I don’t, I don’t necessarily need something to reading all of my tweets for sentiment analysis and going up, he’s about to hit rock bottom again, watch out everybody hide the RSS feeds. He’s about to do a big dump on everything. So it’s like, I don’t, I don’t think I need that. I think it’s like, If I catch myself and I go, huh, I’ve been playing a lot of Tetris lately.

[00:36:48] I should probably talk to them doctor about my medication and, and see like, like explain this, or I should probably reach out to my therapist and like, just let them know. And I [00:37:00] think that if we, if we are like, If we’re trying to track all this stuff to a level that we start self-diagnosing ourselves based on the weather, like, Oh, well, it’s going to rain in three days.

[00:37:10] So I see a, a mood swing happening in five. Like I think that’s a dangerous place to be in.

[00:37:18] Brett_1: [00:37:18] What if it, what if it really worked though? what if it could learn enough about you to pick up on things like mood swings before you normally would, would that change anything?

[00:37:30] Jay_1: [00:37:30] No, because I don’t want anybody having that much information on me.

[00:37:34]Brett_1: [00:37:34] But what if, what if, what if it could tell enough about your habits that were already, I mean, you’re already sharing, you’re already posting the Twitter. You’re already, you’re already recording your Tetra scores. Like what, if that data could paint a picture that was truly useful. I guess I don’t know what truly useful.

[00:37:55] Yeah. Be because there’s not, I mean, yeah. You could go talk to your doctor about your meds, but what are you going to tell [00:38:00] them? Indicators say that I’m about to have a mood swing. Can we adjust my meds now? Even though I haven’t actually had anything happen yet? Yeah. It could be a very police state world, I suppose.

[00:38:12] Jay_1: [00:38:12] You mentioned painting a picture of all that data. Um, I’m sure you’ve seen the subreddit data is beautiful, right? I’m more interested in than just painting pretty pictures.

[00:38:24] Brett_1: [00:38:24] Well, and that’s a lot of what I like about exists IO is that it lets me see a record, not so much about correlations and predictions as it is a well, and do you remember? I had an app called Slugger. Did you ever see that. Uh, like that was it drew in from all of my social media platforms and put them into a day, one journal where I could see them by calendar and by tag.

[00:38:52] And that’s what that was for was this kind of, um, retrospective picture of, of what I had done. And [00:39:00] I did like that. I let it die, but I did like that.

[00:39:03]Jay_1: [00:39:03] Oh, man, I need to, is that source code public of the time I get home?

[00:39:08] Brett_1: [00:39:08] It is, it’s a, it’s a mess of a Ruby script, but you’re welcome to revive it. If it, if it can be

[00:39:15] Jay_1: [00:39:15] Well, I mean, if you could put all that in elastic and actually let it handle the visualization, so you don’t have to.

[00:39:22] Brett_1: [00:39:22] That would be the reason I let it die is because day one changed their database format. And while, while Slugger had gotten popular enough, that day one specifically kept like a backwards compatible import feature for Slugger. Um, it, it was complex enough that I didn’t, I just, it was too much work. I let it go.

[00:39:46] Jay_1: [00:39:46] Oh, man. I can blow your mind with some of the stuff that we’re able to do. A lot of these API APIs, we already have built out.

[00:39:52] Brett_1: [00:39:52] Oh, I bet

[00:39:53]Jay_1: [00:39:53] Oh, this’ll be fun. Uh, I gotta stop talking about work. They’re going to make me log my time or something.

[00:39:59]Brett_1: [00:39:59] you get [00:40:00] paid. Be on my podcast.

[00:40:01] Jay_1: [00:40:01] I, I told him, I was like, Hey, I’m going to be on a friend show. Um, I’ll try to talk about elastic if I can.

[00:40:07]Brett_1: [00:40:07] If it comes up. Um, all right, so I’m going to take a quick break here for a sponsor. Not too long ago. Over 100 million people had their personal information stolen in a major data breach, social security numbers, contact details, credit scores, and more all taken from capital one customers. And it’s not just capital one, Equifax.

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[00:41:51] Jay_1: [00:41:51] Me too. It was funny. I messaged you saying like, Man, no wonder you stopped doing your own pigs. This is, this is hard. And it [00:42:00] was because I feel like I get all of my picks from this show. So everything that I’ve wanted to talk about, it was like, Oh, I don’t know. I don’t know if, if this has already been covered or not, but I think I have some.

[00:42:16]Brett_1: [00:42:16] back on five by five. I had a scraper that would pick up the top three picks from every episode, which would be like six picks back when I used to do my own and then would compile one big markdown list. That I would publish on my blog. And when I had guests on, I could send them to that page.

[00:42:35] You can just do like a tech search just to see if your pick had already been used. But I, after after three different networks, I lost track of how to do that. So I, uh, let’s assume that yours haven’t been picked in at least the last 10 episodes.

[00:42:50]Jay_1: [00:42:50] Okay. I think I’m good. In that case, I would. I know that one of the things that I do on my show is, is similar to [00:43:00] that where I tell people like, Hey, at the end of the show, you’re going to interview me. It’s going to become your show. You asked me questions and everybody always freaks out about like, Oh, but what if I asked like a bad question or what if the question’s already been asked?

[00:43:12] And I’m like, that’s not your responsibility to know, like, it’s my job as the. The podcaster in chief of my show, I guess, to answer that question in a way that it’s still fresh and relevant for my audience. So I love that. You’re like trying to create all of these ways for people to check, to make sure they’re not duplicating stuff, but at the same time, like everyone’s got their own opinions, but share, share why that

[00:43:40] Brett_1: [00:43:40] and I’ve told people, you can duplicate stuff too, if you really feel strongly about it, go for it. So what is your first pick?

[00:43:47]Jay_1: [00:43:47] My first pick is an app that I don’t use that often, but I used it today. So I really loved it. It’s the diagrams and it’s on Setapp. So, uh, if [00:44:00] you’re on Setapp good job, make sure that you open marked at least once a day. So break, get some money and then. Joe checkout diagrams. It is simply a diagramming tool, but it is like the most lightweight diagramming tool I’ve ever seen.

[00:44:14] It’s not designed to be a power tool. You’re not going to build a house with this thing. You’re simply going to add shapes and lines and connect those things. And maybe some words here and there. And that’s what I love about it because. One of the things that I’m trying to do more and more with my projects is design them first.

[00:44:34] So that the code that I write is very deliberate instead of just, I’m going to write a bunch of code, doing a bunch of other things. And then eventually I go back and remove all of that code. I was, I was able to transform 40 blocks of shapes and arrows and tools into six.

[00:44:55]Brett_1: [00:44:55] Yeah. Nice.

[00:44:57] Jay_1: [00:44:57] that was just like one of the most powerful things.

[00:45:00] [00:44:59] I’ve I literally went on stream thinking I’m going to be writing a ton of code. And we sat there and we played with shapes for two hours and it was like, Oh man, no wonder toddlers love doing this so much. And it was just like, I now have a clear idea of how I can implement this, not just in Python, which is my language of choice, but if I wanted to, I could do this in react.

[00:45:22] I could do this in Ruby. I could do this in whatever language, you know, suits me best. And to me, that is, that is so powerful in that. It’s the simplicity of it. That makes it so amazing.

[00:45:36] Brett_1: [00:45:36] Yeah, I haven’t used diagrams for years since, before setup was a thing. But I remember when it came out, I, I blog about it being the, uh, the perfect, lightweight, alternative to something like Omni Graffel and

[00:45:52] Jay_1: [00:45:52] Which I also own,

[00:45:53] Brett_1: [00:45:53] sure everyone owns OmniGraffle. How often do you use OmniGraffle though?

[00:45:57]Jay_1: [00:45:57] it’s not a minute in this [00:46:00] new job. I haven’t just put it that way.

[00:46:02] Brett_1: [00:46:02] I don’t do a lot of diagramming in general. Maybe if I diagram more, I might open OmniGraffle, but. It’s one of those things that you have a use for at some point, and it seems like a great app and it is a great app. Don’t get me wrong. It’s very powerful. Uh, but then your use case passes and now you just own a really good diagramming up.

[00:46:23] How much does diagrams costs like 20, uh, if you were

[00:46:26] Jay_1: [00:46:26] I have no

[00:46:27] Brett_1: [00:46:27] because you have it on setup, right? Uh, it is $20 a month. Uh, if you wanted to buy it directly from the Mac app store.

[00:46:35] Jay_1: [00:46:35] Oh, wow. That’s a lot.

[00:46:37] Brett_1: [00:46:37] Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, setups a great deal

[00:46:42] Jay_1: [00:46:42] There really is.

[00:46:43] Brett_1: [00:46:43] and Oh, they keep adding apps that I already own, which is

[00:46:47]Jay_1: [00:46:47] You

[00:46:48] Brett_1: [00:46:48] great. They’re good apps.

[00:46:50] Jay_1: [00:46:50] that’s a good problem to have. I mean, I wouldn’t say I haven’t, I think I’ve marked twice. And now it’s [00:47:00] like, I’m not buying it a third time. I have it on setup so I can make sure that I’m giving you a little bit every time that I use the app, which is quite frequently, it’s an I, to me, I think that that’s a better approach than, Hey, subscribe to this.

[00:47:17] Like I’m, I’m struggling now with so many apps subscriptions that it’s, it’s not that I don’t want to support them. I really do. I just feel like. An app like diagrams, a good example. If I’m not using that app every single week, I feel like I’m just burning the money that it would cost to. To do that thing to, to get it versus, Hey, let me just give you 50 bucks or let me just pay, you know, $15 a month.

[00:47:44] And you can stretch that out to all of the different tools that I use. Honestly, if set up, charge me per application and they were like, Hey, you just got to pay a dollar for every application that you use. Okay, that’s fine. [00:48:00] I mean, at least I know that like the people that, the tools that I’m using, the developers are getting paid for that that’s perfectly fine.

[00:48:06] I would rather do that any day than to say, well, some app just updated. I think like reader five just came out and it’s like, do I really want to spend $45 on an app that I’m going to use for two weeks and then get rid of probably not. I’m just going to keep building my own RSS reader.

[00:48:22]Brett_1: [00:48:22] So, I, I know I’ve mentioned this on the show before, but, uh, when, when you run it. If, if you own an app and have it on setup, the setup developer only gets paid when you run the setup version. So I wrote a script that will go through all of your installed applications and tell you which ones are available on set app, which ones you might have, like two installations of.

[00:48:49] And then you can use that to delete. The original versions of the app. So you automatically run the setup version that that’ll be linked in the show notes because [00:49:00] Hey, it’s how you get the most out of setup. Anyway, what’s your number two.

[00:49:04]Jay_1: [00:49:04] Alright. So my number two pig, I’m going to, I’m going to make an audible here. Um, But a lot of people I would think are nerdy enough to use a pie hole. Um, are you familiar with it?

[00:49:17] Brett_1: [00:49:17] I am not.

[00:49:18]Jay_1: [00:49:18] So I have a raspberry pie,

[00:49:21] Brett_1: [00:49:21] I, I am familiar with this. I, yeah, it took me a sec, but yes, go ahead.

[00:49:25] Jay_1: [00:49:25] so I have a raspberry pie and I wasn’t sure what I would do with it. Again, you see a hammer, you, it looks shiny. It looks new. You want to buy it just to buy it? I decided that I was going to let it become my primary DNS server. And I set up a pie hole, which is quite literally the best anti-trafficking ad blocking tool that I’ve ever used.

[00:49:54] I will say that it has blocked things to the point that they don’t function. [00:50:00] Like they should. Which to me is more of a knock on the app developer than the software itself, because I’m sorry, like I think a good example of this is on my iPad. My YouTube history doesn’t update on my, on my computer. It does.

[00:50:23] On my iPhone. It does, but on my iPad, my history doesn’t update unless I’m not on my network. And then it updates. So to me, it’s like, wait a minute. What are you, what are you doing that some tracker is blocking on the iPad that is preventing my history from being updated only on my iPad, when everything else runs through the same network, using the same protocols, like it’s all doing the same thing.

[00:50:51] Why? And like, my wife gets mad because she plays a lot of games that have ads, you know, built into them. And she’s like, I’ll just [00:51:00] watch the ads. And it’s like, well, you, you can’t, she gets mad. Cause the games crash. And I’m like, all right, well, here you use, you get tracked. I won’t. And I know that Apple has their own builtin protection of sorts.

[00:51:18] But if I go to Safari in the last seven days, 118 trackers have been profiling me. I turned on my I, my pie hole yesterday. Cause I broke the power cable by mistake. Um, but I got that fixed and then I turned it on yesterday. And since yesterday I’ve blocked 1,168 queries out of 10,000 total. So 10 per 11% of my queries are being blocked.

[00:51:50]Brett_1: [00:51:50] That’s good, right?

[00:51:52] Jay_1: [00:51:52] I mean, it’s a lot better than 118

[00:51:54]Brett_1: [00:51:54] Nice. All right. How hard was it? How hard is it to build one?

[00:51:58]Jay_1: [00:51:58] by [00:52:00] raspberry pie. Go to the pie hole website and copy paste.

[00:52:04]Brett_1: [00:52:04] Oh, alright. I S I still have never played with the raspberry PI.

[00:52:09]Jay_1: [00:52:09] I, I got it. Thinking I was going to, do you remember the Amazon dash buttons? I saw a talk and I can’t remember who it was or where it was from, but basically when you push those buttons, it sends a broadcast signal out on your network. And I wanted to figure out how to intercept those buttons and make my own custom stream deck because yeah, that’s, that’s definitely not a hammer searching for a nail.

[00:52:38] Um, So I never wound up doing, I got it to where I could intercept the signal as it was happening, but I’d never followed through on the, when I push this button, do a thing, I just got to the, Hey, when I push a button, I can see the thing and it doesn’t actually buy new products on Amazon. And then after that they [00:53:00] discontinued the dash button.

[00:53:01] So I was like, alright, well, I’m not going to play with this. If Amazon’s not going to continue it.

[00:53:06] Brett_1: [00:53:06] Fair enough. So what’s your third pick?

[00:53:09]Jay_1: [00:53:09] My third pick is an artist. And I know that that’s, that’s going to be challenging. Um, have you heard of Jacob Collier? So Jacob Collier makes music that musicians, especially jazz musicians, like in everyone, else’s like what in the hell is happening? but the thing that I like about Jacob Collier is that he’s a logic user, which I am as well, but he’s the logic user that we all imagine ourselves being, um, a really good song.

[00:53:43] And I’ll, I’ll send you a link, uh, that he did was, it’s all I need. It’s Jacob, call your Mahalia and Ty dollar sign. I know that’s a weird combination, but that track that four minute and 16, second track had over [00:54:00] 800 tracks in logic and he will sit there on YouTube and go through how he.

[00:54:07]Produced and arranged that logic session over like a three hour live stream. And if you love music, if you love logic, if you love the idea of like, Hey, how does someone think in terms of music? This by far is like just gold is just pure amazingness.

[00:54:31] Brett_1: [00:54:31] Yeah, I could get into that. I, uh, I, as, as part of researching, when I, when I relaunched the podcast, I wanted to get better at audio editing. And I’ve been using digital audio workstations since like early Sony, carnations and Cubase back on a PC in like the nineties. And I’ve never felt really, actually good at production.

[00:54:57] And so I started [00:55:00] studying and a lot of it, I just looked into editing, like podcast, vocals, compression EEQ, stuff like that. But in the process of researching that I would get into these, uh, like vocal compression for, uh, for pop music. And you, you you’re dealing with 10 to 50 takes of the exact same track.

[00:55:24] And the way that people would blend and, and pan and, uh, compressed, and these five tracks are going to this bus and then sent back through this. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah. And like, I can’t imagine getting that deep into a music recording. I would, it would be more than I think my brain could handle, but it’s definitely fascinating.

[00:55:50]Jay_1: [00:55:50] So I grew up around the music. I guess seen, I don’t want to say industry. Um, my uncle was a [00:56:00] producer and an artist. He still is, I guess, but he was one too. Um, but he currently owns an old Motown studio, like one of their actual old studios. And so I, I had a human Cubase. I remember recording on that. Like a, probably a it’s probably like a.

[00:56:20] And Epiphone Les Paul piped into like a zoom guitar to digital, like audio interface into like this PC that I like Frankenstein together and recording directly into like Cubase Ellie, because that’s the way it came with the zoom audio. Oh, I definitely call you there. And I mean, even some of the things that I’ve learned just.

[00:56:47] Watching him do things like, like you said, there’s no way, like I’m never going to use half of the things that he’s doing for an hour long podcast asked, but [00:57:00] I might learn a little bit about bus chaining and I might learn a thing or two about compression and you know how to make sure that. Your audio isn’t too Basey or isn’t too tinny and being able to take those little things.

[00:57:17] Yeah. I mean, again, that is kind of been the culmination of what I’ve done in the podcast. Passing space is. Taking things that other people are doing that I’m not, I’m not going to do. I’m not going to be them. But if I can find like one little bit of something that can inspire me to do what I’m doing slightly different, then that’s.

[00:57:39] That’s what I’m looking for. And I mean, again, I, I just, I love the music, but I love the music more because I hear all of the little things that often get drowned out because he, he takes time to emphasize them. Like there’s I think in one of the tracks that he [00:58:00] did. Oh, it is it sleeping on my dreams? Like there’s a cartoon animation sound of like kind of a hammer hitting an anvil and like Yosemite, Sams, like gunshots going off.

[00:58:14] And you can hear, you can’t hear them in the full song, but then when he stops and gives five minutes on. How it came to him to use that animation and how it just kind of completed, you know, it filled in some of the empty space that needed to be filled. And then for that, every time you hear the song, you hear those notes and you, yeah.

[00:58:37] There’s, there’s that Yosemite Sam like piece and you’re like, Aw, man, that’s amazing. Like it makes you see things differently when you know what it took to make those things happen.

[00:58:49] Brett_1: [00:58:49] Totally. Yeah, I’ve enjoyed. Uh I’ve. I mentioned it on the show that Eric Linder was on, but, uh, Billie Eilish and her brother Phineas put down a lot of, uh, [00:59:00] song breakdowns and they talk about like all the different sounds that. Got incorporated into the mixes. And there’s one where they’re talking about this a street.

[00:59:12] I like the crosswalk sound in Australia that I pulled out a pocket recorder and just picked up, picked it up. Cause it was, it sounded cool. And then you can hear it once, you know, to look for it. You can hear it. I think it’s in. Bad guy. Maybe. I don’t remember. I don’t know if you’re a Billie Eilish fan, but, but yeah, like those, that kind of audio engineering is totally, uh, totally in my wheelhouse.

[00:59:39] Like that’s the stuff I get really excited about.

[00:59:42]Jay_1: [00:59:42] Yeah, Jacob Collier is one of those that I think he has a video on wired that is explain harmony and five levels of difficulties starting with the child and ending with Herbie Hancock.

[00:59:54] Brett_1: [00:59:54] Oh, those wired videos on YouTube. Yeah. I love those. Cool. [01:00:00] All right. Well, let’s tell people where all they can find you.

[01:00:04]Jay_1: [01:00:04] So, if you want to read what I’m writing about, go to KJ Y miller.com. That’s KJ miller.com, but everyone never spells out the J a Y part. So yeah, KJ a Y miller.com. If you want to hear what I’m. Tweeting about follow me on Twitter, KJ Miller. Uh, and then if you want to know what I’m doing in my job, the job and projects that I’m doing, just follow me on GitHub at the same.

[01:00:34] And yeah, you can even sponsor some of my more socially active passion projects, like finding more developer advocates of color to follow and stalk through RSS.

[01:00:46] Brett_1: [01:00:46] And then, uh, the pitcher.

[01:00:48]Jay_1: [01:00:48] Oh, yeah. I forgot to do that thing too. Right. Um, so the pitch shows that productivity in tech.com. Um, again, also I tweet about it. So you can catch an episode on Twitter. They come [01:01:00] out weekly ish, like, um, usually weekly. Uh, but yeah, that’s a productivity in tech.com and then hit the podcast button at the top.

[01:01:10] Brett_1: [01:01:10] Alright, well, thanks for being here.

[01:01:12]Jay_1: [01:01:12] Again, dreams accomplished.